Briefly I would suggest that what makes a good presenter is a talent for understanding an audience and an ability to use that talent to build a connection with that audience.

It’s all about transferable skills.

It must be easier to teach a good presenter with the above mentioned talent, managerial skills, than it would be to teach a good manager how to understand and connect with an audience.

Steve’s whole premise is flawed: it presumes that what he hears translates into a commercial radio audience dying on its arse especially with the big brands. If anything the reverse is true, the bigger brands are reasonably consistent & successful and increasingly profitable.

As for DJs as PDs some are great some are not. Generally I have found that the worse they were as a DJ the better they are as a PD, and yes it is an ego thing. You have to understand the on-air environment, yes, and the connection with the audience, but that doesn’t mean you have to have been a DJ.

Steve is spot on.
Too many of todays PD’s are former sales execs and are controlled, like puppets, by the MD, whom, in many stations, is also a former sales exec themselves!
They are more interested in the cash bottom line and protecting the handful of clients that have signed up, than how the station sounds. I am not saying that the station finances are not important, of course they are. But a better sounding creative station with interesting presenters and content would breed more listeners and therefore more revenue – simple.
To fully understand the craft of presenting and the science of creating compelling radio it has to be learnt at the coal face, hence all PD’s should have completed a decent“apprenticeship”. Here you learn fast how to connect with an audience.
The skills of management can be taught, the feel of good radio has to be discovered.

There’s an old saying that “Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach.”

I know of one extremely good Programme Manager who despite being a presenter for many years is these days – I’m sorry to say – atrocious on the air. But the fact that they’re not – in my opinion – a very good presenter doesn’t take away the fact that they’re incredibly good at coaching and snooping others.

By contrast, I know of an extremely talented presenter who came off air to be a Programme Manager. In my opinion, they’re not a very good PM and – again in my opinion – their decisions have been questionable. But again, that doesn’t take away the fact that I think they’re very good on-air.

That’s how I see it, anyway.

Should a PD be a current/former presenter? In my humble opinion, there’s no clear answer. It does help if the PD has experience of being in a live on-air environment and has clocked up extensive studio time. This though could be a producer or journalist.

During their time in these roles they’ll hopefully have gained experience of working with presenters, management, sales, marketing, engineering and external partners. Basically they are more used to juggling the demands of the business and the on-air studio. Their job is to drive the on-air proposition forward and take the rest of the wider team along with them.

Sometimes presenters are rightly shielded from what goes on ‘backstage’ at a radio station and rightly so, because their focus MUST be ‘what comes out of the radio speakers’. Having on-air experience can clearly beneficial, because you understand the adrenalin rush when that big red light goes on. You also know the pressures which are placed on presenters.

However, there’s also the argument that as a PD you coach your talent to do things the way the station wants them done. If you then go on-air as a presenter (if you’ve not sacked yourself) and break your own rules, then you won’t have the respect of your team, it makes a mockery of your strategy and could make snoop sessions a little uncomfortable (if you even have time to do them, given the rest of your workload).

Clearly in some smaller radio stations, it’s not always that easy and then quite frankly as long as someone is leading the programming side of the business, then that’ll do.

You may disagree.

In smaller stations, I have found the workaround to be dealt with by having the snoops done by a group PD, rather than the local one who does an airshift.

There are several key points here:

In the later 1990s/ early 2000s there were many examples of perfectly good PD’s being got rid of (Swansea Sound/The Wave for one) to be replaced by a person from a SALES background. The management /boards who did this were ‘cutting their own throats’ as the PD job was THE hardest one on a radio station. (I’m sure you can think of a few examples of sales people who became PDs? )

Earlier in the 1990s certain large groups (who got even larger) made vast changes to stations that were actually already more succesful than the stations who bought them. Their policy was simple: get rid of crucial ‘figurehead’ people on the station who the presenters might follow, and select the biggest ‘YES man’ already on staff as a ‘puppet PD’. This was usually someone was was only an average or below average presenter so they gratefully accepted the ‘job life jacket’ they were thrown. OfCom were happy as there was a ‘local’ person in place, but in reality they just did what the ‘big boss’ told them. I’m sure seasoned radio people can also think of a few of these so-called ‘PD’s’!

Lastly I can speak from experience at the Radio Trent/ Midlands Radio group between 1978 and 1994. I was variously titled ‘Head of Programming’, ‘Head of Presentation’, and always ‘Head of Music’ but at NO time was I called ‘Programme Director’. I found this ‘in-between position PERFECT as my only budget control was over jingles (I spent over £200,000) and I SURVIVED in the post for 16 years. I was pretty much autonomous as the actual PD was a BBC man, initially appointed to appease the IBA, and later more interested in budgets and becoming MD. I only left the station as a take-over meant my new boss was an ex SPORT reporter, who knew a great deal less about radio than I did, and they declined to pay a wage increase I requested.

The fact is that today’s UK radio industry does not let anyone ‘CONTROL’ programmes which is why they are now usually called ‘directors’. I would NOT have survived 16 years in today’s industry, indeed, I am probably far too individual to fit in any ‘team’ station. The kind of person the syndicated stations ‘use’ in these positions is happy to accept expensive research, small playlists, over-paid breakfast presenters, and 16- 20 hours a day simulcast from 50-300 miles away. This gives you MY answer…

It no longer MATTERS if the ‘PD’ is a former presenter or not, he is NOT in charge.

Len

A disagree with Penk. Being a presenter and being a PD are quite different skills. Being a PD is a very wide ranging role, having to understand the WHOLE audience of the station, manage people, understand marketing, have a vision for the output, be able to pick apart research and rajar data, have a good commercial sense, manage strategy online, manage strategy with street teams, have a bit of news knowledge, have an ear for station imaging.

A presenters primary role is to sound good on air! I am simplifying, and sounding good is a rare talent and requires great skill, but a presenter does not need to have any kind of management skills, or even a grand vision for the station.

Perhaps being an ex presenter is a potentially useful thing to have on the CV of a prospective PD, but the PD role is so broad I think it can be approached from different angles. For example, I would think many show producers would make excellent PDs.

PD’s controlled by MD’s? I have never heard such shit. The whole thing is a partnership as we know, with one fighting for creative programming and the other looking at sales AND programming, hence the “partnership” which has worked at nearly all the stations I have worked for. To quote a has been: “To fully understand the craft of presenting and the science of creating compelling radio it has to be learnt at the coal face” is bollocks. Using the football analogy, say that to Mourinho or Arsene Venger. Good management comes from anywhere. Puppets… never heard such bitter rot.

Neil Francis: I had no idea who you or Paul Baker were before reading this discussion but in your contribution, you called him a, ‘has been’.

To me a ‘has been’ might be better defined as someone who has worked on a pot-pourri of rather average stations and ended-up doing Saturday afternoons on an over-promoted, under-delivering station which only get 3% reach, compared to a reach of 23% in some of its regions before it was SYNDICATED.

I would observe that Paul Baker neither used the word S**t, or bo**ocks, to make his point.

Are you allowed to use these words on ‘Gold Radio’ because there are so FEW people actually listening??

Paul Baker’s point ‘The skills of management can be taught, the feel of good radio has to be discovered’ is a precise and accurate way to answer the question.

Len: is the best way to win this argument to be rude to a fellow professional? Gold doesn’t seem to be doing too badly from where I sit, and I’ll bet it’s doing significantly better than Trent Sound in Nottingham since it’s actually, you know, broadcast on a radio.

I might venture that Paul Baker’s wrong. You can’t teach either great management skills, nor the ‘feel’ of good radio. You can improve on skills that you already have. Some of the brightest radio people I’ve worked for have not been brilliant managers; and some of the best managers I’ve worked for have simply lacked any passion for radio. The skill of Andy Roberts who has never, as far as I’m aware, been a radio presenter in his life; or, for that matter, Andy Parfitt (who’s also never been a music presenter), or Norwich’s Steve Martin (who is an amazing PD but not, as far as I know, ever “played at the highest level on-air”) is testament to the fact that a great PD is someone who ‘gets’ radio and who ‘gets’ how to get the most out of his people.

This is a really interesting argument, and I’m taken aback at the high quality of discussion here and some of the incredibly experienced programmers who are taking part. Let’s keep the quality high, and let’s not descend to pointless name-calling; it does nobody any favours. If you want to do that kind of shit, hide behind a bollocks username on DigitalSpy.

Oh dear Len you really haven’t researched the figures if you’ve descended all the way down to the “no ones listening angle”. In saying that I think James has put my point across in a more eloquent fashion.Of course you had no idea who I was Len !!! End of. Lol

Len, your response is a superb reply to the question, and I appreciate your comments regarding mine. Neil too has a point and there should be no argument here just discussion. I know Neil form such a long time ago, he won’t remember me from Chilter Radio overnights, (it would be nice if he did…and I presume I would have to buy the coffee if he does ????) but he makes a good point, as ever. We may not like the way he phrases it but fair play…. Neil is a passionate, professional and in my humble opinion a talented broadcaster with a voice and argument to be heard. I mearly added to the discussion. If I am wrong I will admit/accept it no problem. Lets not all fall out about this eh?

James too makes an excellent point regarding Andy Parfitt I can not counter that point, and need say no more, I speak from experience and simply voiced my thoughts at what Steve Penk said.

I think I miss the old style of ILR, where you could be inventive and creative to the n’th degree, hopefully not as a “has been” but as somebody who loved the “need to listen” to radio to see what they were going to do next !!!!

Anyway….“its good to talk” as they say! Hey, maybe we will find a great solution to the proposition Steve created and all live happily ever after…lol.

Paul: I was just signing-in to reply to Neil and James and saw your comment. Your opinions are JUST as valid as everyone else’s, as I’ll explain below. You do not need to apologise to anyone who calls you a ‘has been’ particularly when I can CORRECT a few points already made.

James thinks GOLD ‘doesn’t seem to be doing too badly’! GOLD’s latest Rajar figures place it at No. 311 in a list of about* 341 services named (*I did the figures in a hurry having to remove ‘national’ figures) but basically GOLD is VERY near the END of a LONG list!

With only 3% or 4% reach, that means that for many hours in the week there is little or NO measurable audience to GOLD.

James: if 3% or 4% is ‘not doing badly’ what would you call the 23% reach we achieved for the 6 years I ran GEM-AM ?

James: I had no idea of your ‘qualifications’ but assumed that somehow I’d missed hearing your name linked to an ‘award winning’ breakfast show, or you were PD of a major service. But checking your own ‘biog’ you state you worked in radio from 1989 as…

‘as an award-winning COPYWRITER, presenter, and INTERNET ADVISOR’

(my capitals).

Were you actually ‘award winning’ as a presenter? The only specific claim I found was one you made on Twitter recently, ‘on-air fulltime between 1993 and 1995, and increased my daypart figures consistently’.

I’m interested to know the station?

Perhaps I’m missing something but your own blog suggests you’ve only had a few years on-air, and since 2001 you’ve had no on-air experience as such but specialised being one who TELLS people how to do it, rather than SHOWING them how to do it on-air yourself?

This helps me understand why you resort to statistics, and ‘terminology’; you call yourself a ‘radio futurologist’.

This led me to an idea for my next ‘blog’ on Blogger:

Should ‘radio futurologists’ need to be people with an ‘on-air PAST’ ?

Len: Gosh, that’s a lot of invective. I base my comments for Gold on their slow and steady growth in the RAJAR graphs I linked to. Your impressive 23% reach for GEM-AM is from a different world, where AM was still a popular medium and where there was precious little choice on the dial.

I am award-winning as a copywriter, a presenter, and in my internet work. I presented full-time on The Pulse in Bradford from 1993 to 1995, increasing drivetime then evenings consistently. I made the decision to pursue an off-air career because a) I was competent but not brilliant, and b) found the job rather boring as a fulltime role. I continued to be swing on Hallam FM and Magic AM until 1999, presented a drivetime programme on an internet radio station in 2000, and some shows on Liquid, a London DAB service, in 2005 or so. I loved being on-air and miss it terribly. But all that’s moderately irrelevant: I am not a programming consultant. I do not offer any advice to presenters on how to be engaging and interesting on-air. I never have done (other than some hospital radio coaching).

My job is to help radio companies understand what new technology can offer – including new platforms and the internet, and I speak at radio conferences worldwide; I have been a Trustee of the Radio Academy for three years, and currently work for RAJAR, Radioplayer and provide services to RadioCentre. If your point is that anyone remotely connected with radio should have spent time behind the desk, I would agree with you; if your point is that everyone connected with radio should be a brilliant breakfast presenter, then I’m afraid I don’t. With 22 years in the business – in sales, programming, online and strategy, I think I have a pretty rounded view of the industry, and know many people within it. I know who you are without having to spend time checking.

I find it disappointing that you see fit to attack people rather than the argument they make.

James I did not use profanities in this discussion yet it was ME you chose to attack (aiming high?)

I did not reduce GEM back from 23% to 3% the GWR Australian consultants did.

You also made a most sarcastic point about Trent Sound not being ‘broadcast’. Yet it’s LOCAL, staffed and run by passion not pounds, and in its recent RSL brought LOCAL back into radio with guests including LOCAL councillors and even Trevor Dann (not on a link!) so it achieved rather more than syndicated GOLD?

‘I know who you are without having to spend time checking.’ Thank you, I read much of your website before contributing.

‘I made the decision to pursue an off-air career because a) I was competent but not brilliant, and b) found the job rather boring as a fulltime role’

And therein we have common ground; being a dj IS ‘boring’ to many people, great for ‘fun’ but not for a career. I loved being on-air but was able to contribute more by being ‘Head of Programmes’ for 16 years. Mayve we should ban ‘PD’ and get IR to just employ HOP’s ?

Len

“Not on a link!”. I will try and be civilised when making this comment, but that quote had me laughing considering a certain “70s Sunday” show has its links recorded all the way in Portugal.

Quite a way from Nottingham come to think of it.

I’m trying not to be petty as such but I’m just stating the facts, so Mr Pot doesn’t come insulting Mr Kettle.

That 23% reach on Gem AM was a terrific achievement in the marketplace of the day, but Len’s time (leaving in 1994) was when the only radio competition in the region came from the BBC.

Radio/Century 106, Saga/Smooth, Mansfield, Peak, Oak, Centre, Trax etc etc – all competing for Gem’s audience – hadn’t appeared yet on FM. Five Live and Talkradio/Talksport hadn’t appeared yet on AM. Classic FM and Virgin were new and still growing audience. That’s even before we start thinking of digital radio in all its forms.

I think that makes it pretty hard to pin the decline of Gem solely on Australian consultants.

Robin I’ve made no secret, indeed mae it clear on both Twitter and Facebook profiles, that I live in Portugal! Quote:

(♦from ’07 LIFE in Portugal +Sundays on Nottingham’s Trent Sound)

Short of getting a PAMS ‘WFIL Phil a del fee aa’ jingle re-sung ‘from Port U Gal’ I could not do any more :-)

Michael: thank you, your point is partially true.

Let me (politely) point out that in reality we had 3 of the best, highest rated, BBC locals ‘encircle/overlap’ a lot of our TSA; Notts, Derby (only 13 miles away!) and Leic, plus Signal (a good station) Lincs FM (also good) and Hallam. So GEM’s figures were achieved WITH quite a bit of competition. The moment the syndication started the ratings started to fall.

Of course Saga was basically a re-born GEM on FM with the same presenters and similar jingles.

Len

I’m a bit shocked at the amount of bitterness going on here. Times change, the audience moves on. I guarantee you that you could resurrect Gem on AM now and there’s no way, no way at all that it would pick up 23% reach. Lest we forget Gem was removed from Leicester in the early 90s to make way for Sabras, so comparing the Gem of the 80s to the present-day Gold 945/999 is a little unfair.

As Len hints, the audience are served elsewhere for older music now on FM. Smooth, the present-day Gem, Oak/Trax, Touch… and lest we forget that when GWR took over Leicester Sound, the playlist was tweaked to include older tracks as a direct result of Gem’s absence on 1260. I believe the RAJAR improved quite considerably under GWR.

James, as regards the ‘bitterness’ if you read through the original cavalcade of caustic ‘Tweets’ exchanged between our ‘host’ here and Steve Penk, you’ll see it was born out of a (rather wicked) winding-up of Mr. Penk by ‘our host’. It as all a little tongue-in-cheek, and both of them contribute a lot to ‘radio’ but are separated by opposite beliefs.

I hope this explains my stance here; it was just a continuation of the ‘tone’ on Twitter.

Your comment “resurrect Gem on AM now and there’s no way, no way at all that it would pick up 23% reach”

I don’t want to be too pedantic, but the 23%-24% figures I quoted for Derby- Nottingham GEM, are from AFTER we ‘got rid’ of Leicester. As a believer in LOCAL radio, even back in the 80s-90s I felt it was wrong to try and include Leics which has ZERO affinity to Nottingham. The local ‘pecking order’ as far the dj’s were concerned was Nott, then Derby, then Leic.
We gave up 12.60 to Sabras as GEM’s music policy/ style did not relate to the Asian population of Leicester (which then stood at 33%) so GEM ‘only’ got about 18% reach.
IF, I’d stayed in radio, and IF I’d made some money out of shares (I didn’t) and been THE boss, I would have moved GEM to FM. I would have been happy with 20% reach in the 90s, 15% now. With automation, we COULD have kept it paying/ local, but sadly ‘those days are gone’. Orion’s David Lloyd reviving ‘my’ GEM name for the ‘old’ Heart station is a tribute to what was a very good station.
I’ll ‘vacate’ James Cridland’s topic (thanks James) so it can get back on track !

This is a bit like old Media UK, this. I approve. Sort of.

For what it’s worth, the best PD of the many I’ve worked for had never presented a show in his life.

Len,

Please take this as advice, rather than abuse, as it really isn’t.

You are coming across really REALLY badly.

I read the twitter exchange, and have no link to James or Steve, just my opinion.

Mark, thanks for your opinion.

The verbal skirmishes between James and Steve on Twitter were partly ‘tongue in cheek’ and prompted this discussion, to which I contributed an over-view.
Not being ‘tongue tied’ as most professional radio people are now, for fear of upsetting the ‘suits’ who employ them, I can both contribute, AND ‘speak my mind’.
I don’t need to worry if I am ‘coming across really badly’ as I stand by what I achieved for UK radio between 1974 and 1994, which is fact, and cannot be changed. Equally much younger people, both professional, and not on-air, can post thoughts from their perspective as things ONLY evolve through discussion, and differences of opinion….

True – some might suggest what you achieved between 1974 and 1994 is now largely or wholely irrelevent.

That of course is not fact, but could well be opinion(s).

The verbal skirmishes between James and Steve on Twitter were partly ‘tongue in cheek’ and prompted this discussion, to which I contributed an over-view.

Of course, I’ve worked with Steve, and while we’re certainly not bosom buddies, we know each other reasonably well. Good-humoured ribbing works when you know people, and know how far to go with each other. However, when you get sustained insult from people you’ve never met, it’s nothing other than insulting.

What’s depressing is when people insult the people rather than the argument they make. Media UK deliberately uses real names and links to more information about them; this isn’t an opportunity to take apart their career history to belittle their views, as you’ve done three times, Len. Just saying, like.

Matthew Rudd posted:

This is a bit like old Media UK, this. I approve.

Really?. With M-UK of old you often had the likes of a person that was sacked from the radio industry due to atrocious behaviour (such as hoax faxes in an attempt to get a breakfast show of another radio station sacked because he didn’t like their presentation style) and very poor performance (i.e. halving the audience of a station in 6 months when he became Program Contoller of the same station that the breakfast show presenter was at) coming on M-UK with false names (note the plural) and giving his “expertise” on the subject, as if it was credible. He’s still on that other hideous forum now, still doing it – it’s very laughable – but at least he’s no longer using multiple names and having debates with himself, whilst also telling the world how much of a brilliant presenter he thought his real self was and what a great job he would do if he was PC. So, if you like M-UK of old, bear that in mind ….. not least because there were others that tried similar antics.

It was made even worse because in keeping with this thread subject, that person was a radio presenter who did become PC. Atrocious social and people skills, as well as a major personality issue were the eventual cause of his almighty fall from his dream job. He has even had threats of lawsuits since, from station MD’s – because of the defamatory stuff he’s written on radio forums.

Mark McKenna posted:

Len, Please take this as advice, rather than abuse, as it really isn’t. You are coming across really REALLY badly.

True – some might suggest what you achieved between 1974 and 1994 is now largely or wholely irrelevent. That of course is not fact, but could well be opinion(s).

You ain’t wrong there son. Well said Mark. Amen

I think it’s all down to whether you have talent or not that makes you a good or bad PD. And that specifically means a talent for doing the job, not necessarily a talent for doing somebody else’s…

I really don’t understand Len Groat’s juvenile and quite unnecessarily abusive attack on James, who is too modest to mention his time as Digital Media Director at Virgin Radio, or his two years as Executive product Manager for Audiovisual Projects at the BBC, but I have no problems at all with his qualifications to make informed comments.

Len is, indeed, coming over ‘badly’!

Some might suggest what you achieved between 1974 and 1994 is now largely or wholely irrelevent. That of course is not fact, but could well be opinion(s).

I AGREE that what I ‘achieved’ is ‘irrelevant’ now!

Because… we broadcast 24 hours a day LIVE, we broadcast LOCALLY, had NO output from London, I employed mainly LOCAL presenters, we had jingles without endless ‘woo ooh yeah yeah’ on instead of proper lyrics, so yes, it bears NO resemblance to what PASSES for ‘local radio’ now, where many of the 300+ stations are broadacasting for much of the week to audiences too SMALL to even measure.

And if you think 20 years hands-on experience counts for nothing, how many years DOES one need to do to ‘count’ ~ in your opinion?

And if you think 20 years hands-on experience counts for nothing, how many years DOES one need to do to ‘count’ ~ in your opinion?

My opinion is that your experience, or Tony’s or James’ isn’t relevant. I can judge your opinions and contributions to the discussion from reading what you’ve written hear. You shouldn’t need to validate or bolster your point of view by telling us what you’ve done.

FWIW in answer to the question “Should all PDs be ex-jocks?” I’d say “No.” On-air experience can’t hurt, but I think it’s more important that they’re creative, capable of strategic thinking, understand the business and are good with people.

I’d agree with t’other James – for my part, I don’t believe that anyone has a monopoly on good opinions: which is why this section of the website’s here. After all: if listeners don’t like what we do, they stop listening. And it’s their opinions we should treasure the most.

Own up. Who’s Bundyman from the other place?

Best read I’ve had in a long old time! Thank you!

I have to agree Len’s doing himself no favours. He comes across – to my eternal disappointment – as a bitter old fart, frankly. And it’s sad that someone so good at their craft some time ago hasn’t been able to move on with the times and understand what the modern audience wants, without saying what he did 20 years ago, putting half of it, ironically, in CAPITAL letters to try and make a point. Really sad.

Some of what Len said made sense to me although most of it, as you’ve said does him no favours :(

By the way, I think what the modern audience want is a moving target, one that the industry struggles to hit consistently. Personally, I think technology and listening habits are moving too quickly right now and have been for some time.

The fundamental problem with a question like “should a PD be a Jock or not” is that it is down to individual personalities . I have worked with some great PDs who were great Air talent-like David Lloyd. I’m sure Len agrees. David is a good example of a personality who also understands psychology and can get the best out of people. A leader of people.

And I have known great PDs who were terrible jocks. No names here. You need special skills of patience and persuasion to be an at-the-coalface rather than blue-sky-thinking PD. Those are special characteristics that a jock may not have. Sometimes a person who “gets” radio didn’t want to go on air or didn’t have the voice for it. And a real strength is knowing your skills and weaknesses. There are a number of different arguments emerging here, all away from the originally posed question!

One of the best PD’s I ever worked with was Steve Parkinson, now MD at Kiss, I must confess to having my doubts when he was appointed and I made them known to him and others.

However it became bvery clear that Steve was not only creative himself but appreciated and encouraged other creative and talented people.

His craetivity and talent was in other disciplines but crucially he understood the process and that for me is what counts!

I think if you have been on air you better understand the ego’s and personalities and that has to be an advantage, you have to make people feel valued at all levels then they will buy into what you do.

Formats are great guides for talent as are road maps for drivers but sometimes you have to get off the motorway and see the sights, if you know what I mean?

That’s when things really become interesting not just for the driver but the passenger too!

Bill: Good to see you posting here!

‘I have worked with some great PDs who were great Air talent-like David Lloyd. I’m sure Len agrees.’

100% Keri!

I used David as the ‘theme’ for my latest blog on Blogger, as he represents the type of presenter who is being IGNORED by the (non) local radio now; he’d have zero chance of getting a local job. I asked ‘Where are the ‘Tony Lloyds’ of tomorrow to come from?’

He’s a perfect example of impassioned, native talent, as opposed to passive ‘trained’ talent’ using research to make programmes.

ANOTHER ‘Digital spy’ moment?

‘Arthur Grainger’ looks remarkably like Jimmy Saville, and the reply from James is even more off-post than mine!

“it’s sad that someone so good at their craft some time ago hasn’t been able to move on with the times and understand what the modern audience wants”

James, if YOU really know ‘what the modern audience wants’ I’d suggest you will soon be in an eminent position with one of the syndicated stations, and have no time to contibute here… you will be much missed.

I also prefer being ‘a bitter old fart’ with a 20 year radio career under my belt, than ‘a bitter old fart’ without one.

Ach, don’t be a bitter old fart, Len, my friend. There are many years to go and much brilliant radio to be created. Do it with an open mind, not a closed one. There’s much to learn and it can be as much fun as those early days. Works for me. (And I’ve recently agreed with the BBC to stay until I’m 70)

So I take you’ve still got another 20-odd years at the BBC then Tony?

Len,

I’m not sure why I’m bothering to continue this, since you seem to be on a crusade to tarnish your past successes but in summary:

1) I never suggested your opinion doesn’t count, so the ‘how many years’ comment is kinda weird.

2) James Martin annoys the hell out of me, but I’d still miss his posts here more than yours. Just saying.

3) Apology for childish point 2.